... Episode 11 of What's Arising
What is pain? From where does it arise? How can you/we bring an end to pain?
Studies show that chronic pain (physical, emotional, mental and spiritual) is in increasing in our world. Around 20 percent of people in North America say they have chronic pain. 1 in 8 suffer from some kind of emotional/mental challenges including anxiety, loneliness and depression. Pain is at epidemic proportions.
In this What's Arising podcast, we'll explore pain from a metaphysical and holistic perspective. I'll tell some stories of personal experiences in healing physical and emotional pain. I'll also share some tips on how to discover the root causes of your pain, so that you can heal it or reduce its impact.
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So welcome once again to what's arising.
I'm finding there's just so much arising right now in in the experiences of the world, in the various groups that I'm in.
So it's hard to pick a topic each week, and I could pick several topics per week and get totally lost in what's arising.
But that's the beauty of life to be to notice what's arising.
And I love contemplating those things and noticing shifts around.
That and how life seems to have an ongoing conversation with us through the symbolism of our experience, the the the beauty of living in life at this time.
The topic that I decided to focus in on today was ending pain.
And thank you for the individual that suggested that I look at pain.
I thought it was an interesting subject to contemplate and bring forth in a in a podcast.
I thought it was interesting because pain is just so prevalent in the world.
All kinds of pain in, in terms of chronic pain that seems to be in the on the increase in at least in North America.
I think something like 20% of people in North America say they have chronic pain and some of that those people are in such pain that it it limits them so that they can't work or really enjoy life.
But there's also this emotional pain that is massive these days, This sense of depression, this anxiety that's arising especially in young people, based on the conditions of the world, whether the anxiety is about the fear of the future, climate change, political issues in the world, whatever is going on, there's a huge amount of anxiety and loneliness.
I think I heard from one individual that a study in Britain said that something like 80% of people felt lonely.
So what is all this about?
What is all this pain about?
Oh, and there's also this sense of meaning, this meaning crisis.
So I find that all really interesting and at some level, I guess all my work is about pain.
And I never thought of it as pain.
It's it's more, I think of it more about suffering, but there's pain and then there's suffering through the pain.
And do we really need to suffer?
And what is the secret sauce to ending pain?
Or at least ending the suffering within the pain?
I think of watching an animal in pain.
Of course I can't get into their mindset, but I'm guessing the way they process pain is they're obviously feeling pain, but are they suffering in in the same sense that a human being was suffering?
There wouldn't be a whole bunch of other stuff going on about thinking about the pain and and getting out of it.
It just is in my sense.
So how do we get back to that isness, at least in our pain?
And then how do we actually cope with or really end the pain?
I have a couple stories around pain that I'd like to share in terms of my own experience with others.
For myself, I've been blessed.
I have not experienced much pain.
I certainly have had some back pains at times.
I've also.
I once fell down a stairs and ripped a tendon in my shoulder and that was extreme pain.
I could barely get up, but these things didn't last so long.
So I don't know this experience of chronic pain or that intense pain, and I probably haven't even taken a painkiller for for years.
I did take a little bit of coding when I had the fall, but wasn't.
I didn't take very much of it because it didn't even seem to help me, and I shipped it out of that some years ago.
I had a man come see me around pain, wanted to shift, see if he could shift the pain.
And he'd been experiencing pain for several years right throughout his body, everywhere this pain had spread.
I can't remember where it started, but it spread throughout his body.
He ended up getting addicted to to Oxy I think, or other drugs and ended up finally pulling himself out of that addiction.
So he was a he was a powerful man in terms of his determination, but he could not release the pain and he would go to the doctors and they would say there's no reason for his pain.
They say it was mental and things.
So he came to me kind of as on the wish of a friend told him about me, and he came and flew out to see me.
And I worked with this man for an hour or so.
He came in extreme pain.
If he moved in any way, stood up, sat down, he was being pain.
If he if he was just sitting and doing nothing, he was in pain.
And this was right through his limbs, his torso, his all of his body.
It's like, and this is what he had been living with and coping with for some years.
So I worked with him for about an hour, umm, in the various aspects of his pain.
Started off by reducing, helping him reduce the pain overall.
And so that he was sitting with me and he was in no sense of pain at all sitting with me or or standing with me.
And then I work, I asked him, well that let's try sitting down.
And as he was sitting down, this movement to sit down, there was pain.
So I worked with that and shifted that.
So after about an hour, maybe an hour and a half, his pain was completely gone.
There was no pain.
No matter what he did, moved around his body, there was no sense of pain.
And so it was a, in that sense, a success story.
So we left later that afternoon while he was getting on the pain, I found out that the pain started to return and it didn't come back fully.
But by the time he was back in his own city, the pain had got to a place that was much higher and a lot of it was back.
So he experienced no pain after a few hours with me.
And then he went away and started to experience it and he set up another appointment with me a few weeks ago, which is how I found out over the pain.
So I worked with him on the phone for another hour.
So at the end of that hour, again there was number pain and maybe it came back.
One of the thinking around pain in this particular instance was there's probably some other beliefs that we didn't get to or experience that we didn't get to.
Who would he be without the pain?
For instance?
What what is the attachment to pain?
Was there something else that he we needed to find in order for him to release the pain?
And if it could be just released in his mind, what would that mean?
That all of his story of physical pain and seeing doctors, it invalidated all of that.
So what?
What are some of the other questions, deeper questions around why he was holding on to pain?
Because obviously with his mind he could let that completely go.
Another story around pain is my my sister, my deceased sister of a number of years ago.
And this was working with other people's pain, physical pain, and it was really interesting.
And this was in the setting of a more evangelical, charismatic church.
And somehow she was paired with another individual like her in another church with a different pastor.
And they would get, they would each receive pain of some kind.
It might be knee pain one week and the next week it was back pain and the next week it was headaches or ear pain or something.
And they would call each other up and say, hey, are you what's going on for you?
Oh, I have an ear egg today.
And the other would say, do you know who it's for?
Because they would.
They were intercessors for other people's pains.
They were healers within the context of this charismatic Christian Church.
So they would say, well, do you want to get together and pray?
So they would get together and pray all week and they would carry this pain around and until the prayer released them from the from the pain.
And then, kind of miraculously, without their pastors ever knowing what they were doing in their homes all week, the pastor would call people up for that specific healing in the church, and people would come to the front and they would lay hands on them for earaches.
If the earaches was the theme of the week.
So quite a miraculous thing.
But what I noticed about my sister, she would be moping around in pain, carrying this pain for others for several days, one week and the next.
And for her it was this service.
I listened to another pastor some some years after that or or or or during that period that my sister and I had gone to this conference, this Christian conference, and the the healer that was doing the healing for the the congregation there.
He had explained that he would just feel a little nudge of pain to know that OK, so people are are are calling or needing knee pain.
So he would feel a nudge in his knee and then he'd call people up that had some issues with knee or or back pain or mobility issues of some kind.
And that's sometimes how I feel pain when I'm working with people.
I don't take it on to an extreme.
Occasionally I might be working with somebody around something else, around beliefs or beliefs or shadow work or something more on the individual level and I might have a a shot of pain.
Go through my head and I'll go, whoa, I never get headaches.
And so that'll cue me in to say, hey, do you have a headache?
And they say, yeah, I've got a splitting headache.
Well, why don't we let go of that first before we move on?
So is this signal from this empathy, empathetic pain or feeling the pain of others, which would give me a slight signal to work with healing pain and others.
But usually that wasn't what people came to me for, not for pain.
It was more, or at least not physical pain.
It was usually more emotional pain, and in the work with emotional pain you can actually let go of the physical, physical pain also, which I'll explain in a moment.
So one of the things with within that whole story of empathetic pain is that some people are more sensitive to others and emotionally, physically, etcetera.
And we're part of a collective.
We're not separate really, other than in our thinking in our experience of this reality.
So if there's a lot of emotional pain going on in a room or with others, some of you might be picking up that carrying that unconsciously.
So one question to ask around pain, whether it be emotional or physical or mental or spiritual pain is, is this mine?
And if and and see what comes to you, is this mine or how much of this is mine.
So you might be receiving pain at a I'm not saying a nine out of 10 level.
And when you ask that question you notice like 2 per you know, 2% is yours.
So you can you can actually send it back to the collective.
In many cases.
Sometimes you'll want to work with it for the collective, but if you're inexperienced, probably you don't need to be working with it.
So send it back with love to wherever it came from.
And then your your pain might go from a nine down to a four or two or something like this, or it can be completely gone because you consciously use the power within you to put up a basically a boundary, send it back because you don't have to necessarily receive that pain.
I was working with one client some years ago, and she was so open in this empathic sense that she was.
She'd walk into room and she'd feel all kinds of things and get discombobulated in so many ways.
So I gave her the idea of a dial to turn things down.
And I said, well, you can you feel this?
And yeah, I feel this from somebody.
Let's just imagine turning it down.
And she was very powerful individual.
She turned it down and there was no pain and she could turn it up and she could feel.
So she had this, this dial.
Well, the next time I saw this individual, she came back with a whole console of of different sensitivities on pain of this and that.
And so she could dial up, dial down, switch on and off various aspects of what she was feeling empathically in the world or her environment.
So there's lots of different tricks you can do with with pain.
And then I also in one previous video on that, I did the the The Sense of Evil, that podcast that I did before I mentioned this man in Africa, that it was in a lot of mental illness, pain and was in a psych centre and we worked with him remotely.
And in this case, that anguish, that mental pain, that depression, was a spirit attachment.
So when we remove the spirit attachment, he got better and we also filled the hole where the attachment of this particular entity or group of entities was there.
I didn't mean to talk about all those things in that story.
These more stories came to me in that.
So anyway, what's the sense of pain?
Where is it coming from?
What is our capacity?
There's lots of capacity each of us have to end pain, reduce pain, transform pain.
And I'll talk about a little bit about that.
Now before I go there, let's talk about what is pain.
So what is pain?
Where does it come from?
Are there different kinds of pain?
When I was asked this question to do this video on ending pain, I recalled an audio from a channel called Lazarus.
There was a man named Jacques Purcell who has been channeling this being or this entity called Lazarus for many years.
And you can maybe I'll put something in the show notes on Lazarus.
But Lazarus in one of his gatherings talked about ending pain and where pain came from in this.
So I recalled something there and I went back and listened to it again and it was really, I thought, really appropriate to share here.
And I'll put the link if I can find it to that audio if you want to look fully.
There was some meditations and some tips and hints on ending pain in that particular video.
But he talked about four kinds of pain.
The physical pain, the emotional pain, mental pain and spiritual pain.
These four different experiences of pain.
Now, physically we all understand what you know, the sensation of physical pain, emotional pain.
I guess we also know that and showing up in terms of anxiety and fears and and loneliness and depression and and and these kinds of of of of pain, sadness etcetera, that that are symptoms of pain, that underlying pain.
And then the mental pain which would be painful thoughts thinking, painful thoughts or painful images coming to mind.
And then the spiritual pain being that sensation of hollowness or emptiness in in our life, this, this lack of meaning in some sense of of of anguish around that.
So Lazarus talked about many things, like loneliness and fears and things as being either a separation from something or a longing for something.
So you could categorize many issues in a separate metaphysically as a separation from or a longing for.
But he said that pain was different.
To pain was kind of the underlying residue, often even what's left over from maybe you've done a lot of your work, but the residue of the pain had not been shifted and let go of.
But he talked about what the what pain as being the synergy or the synthesis of both a separation from and the longing for not one or the other, but both of them together.
A separation from and a longing for something.
At the physical level, Lazarus explained that physical pain is a separation from and a longing for control, and also a separation from and longing for feeling to know that I'm alive.
So many people, emotionally or in their life, have got to a place of feeling numb.
Not really here, just that, just trudging away from day-to-day, just needing to numb out the experience because it's just too overwhelming or something.
And they will give themself pain.
They'll stub their toe, have an accident, some, bring in some kind of pain in order to know that they're here on the ground and alive.
It also gives a sense of control and feeling control, in control, at least in feeling in control of the physical world.
So I thought that that is an interesting explanation for what's behind the pain.
And so if you can look at from that perspective, whatever physical pain you might have, what is it you're feeling separate from and longing for?
So the control being the the, the symptom or the pain being the gateway into finding out what's underneath that pane, What are you trying to control?
Where are you feeling out of control.
And when you get to that level and heal that level, then you can start ending the pain at that level because the pain is really a symptom of that deeper sense of wanting to feel that you're alive.
So that's physical pain.
And if we look out in the in the world, we've got an escalation of chronic pain in the world, in our collective society.
So you can look at the collective is feeling out of control or wanting to feel in control, in control and there's a pain that's happening there.
We're also noticing in the collector, or at least I am, that the authoritative control is trying to also put control on people to control the environment.
So we're trying to control things more when everything seems out of control, overwhelming, etcetera.
In the world where there be climate change, whether it be wars etcetera, there is pain being injected into our reality because of this sense of control.
So we need to look at the shadows within control or the beliefs within control and shift those to let go of the physical pain.
So what's underneath that, and I'll talk more about that at the physical sense in a in a moment.
So emotional pain, he said, is that is the longing for and separation from belonging.
So it's a sense of wanting to feel like I belong, that I'm loved, that I love, that I am cared for and I care.
So this is the sense of the emotional pain.
So a lot of the other things we're feeling, the loneliness and everything else is, is related to this sense of needing or wanting, longing for belonging.
And that is so true.
Most people I meet have this sense of not belonging.
It's an epidemic of not belonging.
This split, this separation of community.
Community isn't what it used to be.
And we're evolving as a collective, I think, towards coming back to community because of this craving, this longing for belonging.
But right now we are in so much separation in our world that we long for belonging and even within this search for belonging somewhere finding a fracture, a tribe maybe that where we feel like we're belonging.
But it's kind of cultish like because all those people there, they think like me, it could be, it could be either right or left.
It could be extreme right or extreme left.
These people see the corruption that's going on, we can talk about and and sense together are both our fears of what's happening in the world, whatever perspective that may be from left, political, right, political, something else.
So this sense, this craving, this separation from and longing for belonging is where the emotional pain is coming from, according to Lazarus.
And then there's this mental pain, this painful thoughts, these painful images that might drop in for other people, and this anguish over that mental pain, he would suggest That is this separation from and longing for understanding.
It's for longing for meaning.
And also it's a longing for conception, for feeling like we can conceive, create something.
We're creators and and moving out with action and having an impact in the world, conceiving something.
So this, this longing for understanding in a world that seems so complex, what's what's the meaning of all this when eating to understand is causing this mental anguish and pain, and can we not suffer within that?
Can we let go of that?
Can we look at those aspects, those beliefs that we need to understand everything?
That's often a left brain focus on things.
The left brain needs to break things down into parts and pieces for understanding of stuff, which won't work.
We need to go to more of the right brain, the wholeness for understanding and simplicity versus the complexity.
So that's mental pain and conception.
He suggested also in the audio, that women have more difficulty with this than men, at least at the time that he did this audio, which was in 1999.
Because although women conceive, give birth, and so they have power in feeling like they're conceiving in birth, if they've if they're a mother, they don't have as many opportunities as men to conceive in the outer world in in some cultures.
So to be able to have this power of impact and conception and bringing an idea into form in the outer world, the culture of the paternalistic cultures had given lots of opportunities for men to conceive new businesses, new ideas, new inventions, purpose within their workplace that women traditionally have not have had So understanding, sense of meaning and conception.
So looking at mental pain underneath that and then the spiritual pain would be this longing for or separation from aesthetics, for beauty, for harmony.
Ah, also a sense of this.
What is life for?
What is this meaning?
Is greater meaning, this longing from for and separation from our relationship with God, Goddess all that is in Lazarus's terms, this, this sense of something bigger than ourselves and having a relationship with this spirit, God, source, universe, whatever you call it.
And our world today, in our scientific scientism kind of world this we flatlined a lot of the meaning that we had in traditional times and we've there, there's no God.
And so we're the spirit has our individual spirit, and soul has this longing for a reconnection, refining and kind of lost within that whole experience, so spiritual pain emerging.
So I hope those pieces were useful and now I want to come back to exploring pain and the symbolism around pain.
In a previous podcast I also talked about life being like a dream and when we go into our sleeping dream, there's all kinds of symbolism there in the sleeping dream.
And if we can decode or understand what those symbols are in the sleeping dream, we can understand our subconscious dreaming process and what it's trying to work out and and solve or heal or let go of from from our daily life, typically in the sleeping dream.
So we can we can start to have the subconscious heal or process things in our dream world.
And if we look at our waking dream, I would suggest that there's lots of symbolism here, and that life in a sense, is processing and attempting to tell us through the symbols of the world where our pain might be and how to release it, Where our our joy lies.
Our next step lies.
There's all kinds of symbolism, if we're curious, open and asking.
And I invite you to play with this idea that life is wanting you, White life is wanting you to to expand, to grow, to to live in joy and abundance, even without pain.
It's inviting you into the the better sense of life is working for you, not against you.
So if you played with this, what is it trying to tell you?
The body is one of those highly symbolic centres which we can look for as a symbol.
And there's been many books written about their body speaks your mind, your body, your body is telling you things.
So if you follow the pain and look at the pain in the body physically, maybe you have a have a stomach ache as an example, you could ask questions like what am I not stomaching, right, So where am I trying to control things around in the world?
Stomaching out being, coping with tolerating?
What am I trying to tolerate.
So if you dip into the body, into the symbolism within the body, it'll often tell you things.
If you have knee pain, for example, that might be around flexibility.
If you have pain in the hips and legs that might be around stability and standing on your own 2 feet or something like this, every part of the body will relate to some level of symbolism and certain part of the body parts of the body will will relate to also.
Certain chakras relate to the heart, for instance, which may be about love and caring and belonging and those kinds of things.
If you have headaches you might assume that it's something that has to do with your thinking process or painful thoughts or some attachment to with beliefs and and things the at this level.
So if you pick up books like this or one book that I recall which I like is The Body Speaks Your Mind from Deb Shapiro and she doesn't it's not prescriptive.
She she will ask questions around off the stomach means this, the liver means this and then ask you a few questions and then you can intuitively contemplate and find the answers that way.
There's other books that are more prescriptive.
I think the guys name is Doctor Michael Lincoln.
He wrote a very thick book out of the states.
I don't have it beside my desk here.
And it's your It's also I think your body.
I'll have to I'll put the title in the in the show notes of that particular book.
But there's many books out there that actually get really, really detailed.
If you've got this pain going on this particular condition or disease, it means this and this is the probably the childhood experience that started the process of you getting to this particular place in your life.
So it's useful.
There was 1 occasion I had.
I was working with a young lady and her mother came in.
I was, but I was working with the daughter and the daughter had all kinds of different symptoms going on within her body, different diseases and and I was curious, you know, from this book of Lincoln's of what what might be going on and see if she related to any of those things.
So I took the symptoms and I read out what this book said about what was happening there with her.
And in this case, this relates back to this empathy story that I talked about before.
When I said that, both the mother and the daughter said no, that isn't me at all.
That isn't her experience.
None of those things happened for her, but they all related to her father.
So could she could see all the symptoms in her father.
So in this case, it appeared like she was carrying these traumas and pain for her father versus it being hers, hers, hers.
So then we worked with that and the caring of pain for her father and what she could do, what we could do around those symptoms with respect to somebody else's pain.
So there's the body is a tremendous symbol of what might be going on, and we might look at other symbols coming into our life that will direct us to those root causes.
We also might use meditation or other tools to contemplate and ask and sit in the question of what's this really about.
For me, How do I find the source of this pain so that I can shift it?
And there often can be very revealing.
And when you get to that, there's just this, this freedom, this opening.
Not only do you get this release often from the physical paint that's sitting there and is gone, it can be gone instantly.
But you also get this deep insight into your life, maybe your purpose or something else.
There's a transition in your psyche to joy.
Often now when I'm working with people emotionally I'll also have them go to the body.
So where do you feel that sense of longness, loneliness in your body and the body?
When they when you connect with that, it will often show up somewhere in the body and then we can work with that in the body.
And it if you ask intuitively what does what's behind that feeling in the body, their insights onto what it is, will often come up just by sitting with the question.
Or also, the transition can happen by sitting with the experience.
So let's talk about ending pain for a moment.
And this is where I don't have a lot of answers on how you can end your pain other than find the source and work with it.
And that could be beliefs and shadows in being with it.
But first of all, find the source of the pain.
What's behind it?
What's the residue that's sitting in the cells?
Maybe you've even done all the work, but the residue hasn't been shifted in the cells yet, so you have to go to a deeper level.
Maybe you've had several experiences of rejection in your world, and maybe you've maybe you have forgiven the people and surrendered and let go of that feeling of rejection within yourself, forgiving yourself and others.
Or maybe you haven't gone quite deep enough to release it in the cells.
So you've done all that work, but it's still sitting in the cell.
So there's another layer to let go of that residue and another level of that experience.
But going into that even deeper, into the feeling of what's there, into the rejection and being with it until it completely transforms.
And that's typically what I will do.
I will just surrender right into whatever the emotional pain is, physical pain, if I have any.
And if I can get into it, I will go dive into it.
Not trying to get rid of it, but being with it.
And it's in the being with the especially the emotional pain that it will shift.
We get the insights and the alchemical process that shifts it from from pain into into joy into sadness to joy to anger into joy, whatever that may be.
Or at least neutrality.
Often that might be the case.
So find the source, go into the source and process, process it, watch it.
And it's helpful to have a sense of a witness as you go in.
So when when I go into some emotional things for myself or others or the collective, I will dive as Richard right into the feeling of that in its in its fullness, and invited all in.
And Richard will be experiencing all of that.
But there's a part that is also open watching, not attached witnessing, what is going on in Richard, encouraging him to stay there, to go deeper and and always in this place of curiosity, what else?
Is there something else that I need to see within this experience?
So I do this, this process with myself and I do this also with my clients.
So this witness is important.
Sometimes in small groups or with another, it's helpful to have somebody else play the Witness so that you don't get caught, go to the depths, because we have lots of protection mechanisms in our psyche not to go there.
We perceive it as being too painful to drop into, and so we block ourselves from going and being with it fully.
Instead, we try to escape it, go into movies or other drugs or other addictions, other distractions, in order to not go into the pain, and that will just perpetuate the pain and make it chronic forever.
It's really about going in and fully processing.
Right to the depths of it and letting it go and surrendering it all is is at least my process.
We also might do some programming around it, sometimes processing and then coming out and programming a different myth or story.
Create a new story.
If there was a tragic traumatic story in the past that you've now gone in and now processed it, it's helpful to create a new story and new myth about how that was a wonderful experience after you've forgiven it as well.
If I had not had this traumatic experience, then I wouldn't have found this and this and this.
So often we find that whatever has happened in our life or childhood, it may be just horrible.
And I I have not been in the horrible experiences that some people have been, but it'll lead us into some skills and capacity, some level of purpose that we can be grateful for.
So we create a new myth about that.
Now another way to process these things is to journal about it.
Just dump it all onto a page.
Jump from several different perspectives if you can and create a new story that way.
Write out a new myth of what's possible.
And of course you could.
You could work with me through some of those things.
Or maybe you know some other healers.
So I hope that's all helpful to you.
I'm not saying you have to believe anything.
These things.
I invite you to to try some of those things.
I have not had your experience.
I am not had these places where I'm in chronic pain for a long time.
I've certainly had pain.
I've shifted it.
Usually it's gone away for whatever reason, but I tend not to go to drugs or other things first.
I but I do see healers.
You you.
I might go to a chiropractor.
In fact I will go to a chiropractor if I have back pain and reset and that seems to help me.
Is that the chiropractor or is that my belief systems?
Often rituals, whatever those rituals are, engage our belief system in a way that processes and reprograms the story and lets go of the pain too.
So an appropriate ritual is something that all healers may or may not know about, that a lot of things are rituals, and with that are very powerful.
Maybe with even a legacy or a background, a lineage around Reiki, you can go to Reiki.
There are tremendous healing tools and people with amazing abilities, energy work that work with people.
If you were with me in person, often I will use an energy to to work with the pain if someone has a headache or something.
But I but I can't say that physical pain is necessarily at this point, my expertise.
And then there's things like taking action on certain things, emotional pain, belonging.
If you feel like you're not belonging, where could you search out a sense of belonging or create conditions where you can have a group where you really sense you belong?
And because of my own sense of such a longing for belonging in this separation from each other, I've started a project called Coherent Community with others where bringing groups together into these safe, open, trusting spaces where they can get a sense of belonging with each other.
Learn to really grab that capacity.
Develop that capacity to create belonging wherever they go outside of that group and be supported in this group and maybe create their own circles.
So that's on my elevator work website and I'll put the link to that also in the show notes.
So this was a long one.
Thank you for listening.
If you stayed to the end of this and if this was helpful to you.
Some aspects of this I invite you to to contemplate what I've said.
Maybe share in the show notes some other ideas around pain or experiences or ways you have of ending pain and releasing pain.
But subscribe, share this and other videos with your friends if this is helpful and I'll see you in the next one.
Thank you